Heol Isaf – Voluntary 20mph

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This topic contains 27 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  councillorkieranwebstermorganstownward 2 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #7190

    steveb
    Participant

    Hi

    As many will know, we have a significant issue in relation to speed through R&M.

    Data released under the freedom of information act showed that the average speed of drivers in Radyr is between 41-44mph (SW echo May 21st 2016). Sadly nearly 2 years later and there seems to be no tangible progress to this situation. Many R&M residents have discussed and campaigned for change on this subject for many years, with our local councillor saying he would like a 20mph zone from Pughs to the end of Radyr.

    Unfortunately the councils current plan is to work from the centre of the city out in relation to 20mph zones – which leaves us in R&M at the back of a very long queue. Our local councillor has explained even with S106 money available from Plasdwr, there will be no speed restrictions or safety measures for Heol Isaf.

    We know this is an arterial route, but so is Llandaff, Pontcanna and Ferry Rd all of whom have some form of speed restrictions.

    Many residents have highlighted that when they try to drive at the 30mph speed limit, they feel like they are being pushed along by cars behind and that trying to drive slower would make them uncomfortable. I have witnessed this and even been overtaken a few times whilst driving at 30mph through the village.

    The 30mph limit is just that, not an aspiration and it is there for a reason.

    My understanding is that if someone is hit by a vehicle the survival rates are:

    20mph – 99%
    30mph – 40%
    40mph – 1%

    I believe this has gone on long enough now, and something needs to change. We have narrow pavements and vulnerable people crossing, not to mention cyclists.

    One idea muted, could be that the residents of Heol Isaf place boards on their property boundaries (like party affiliation or for sale boards) saying that R&M is a voluntary 20mph zone. This would allow people to feel more comfortable travelling on Heol Isaf under the 30mph speed limit.

    I understand Cardiff Council are about to examine making Cardiff a 20mph zone overall like many in the UK have already done, so we know this is coming, just hope it doesn’t come to late for R&M.

    I would been keen to know peoples thoughts on this and as a community so it can be examined in more detail going forward.

    Thank you.

    #7192

    heolisaf
    Participant

    I’ve been overtaken a few times in the centre of the village whilst doing 20-25mph… it’s an insane situation! Ppl treat it like an extension of the A470. There’s an unwritten rule that you only park on one side of Heol Isaf, but there’s no yellow lines so maybe its time we started creating our own voluntary traffic calming by parking on both sides as well. A couple of days of that might also wake up Cardiff council from their current delusional stance that the Heol Isaf will cope with Plasdwr.

    Regarding the signage, if it proves popular I’d be happy to have one. I think a 20mph zone all the way to pughs is the wrong idea if we want people to take it seriously… thats too long. Needs to be from the secondary school to the primary school and then a seperate 20mph in Morganstown.

    There was another speed survey (strips on the road by the church) last month… does anybody know the results yet?

    #7195

    mrspastry
    Participant

    What if we got together & made some dummy speed cameras too?
    I suppose the Council and Police would disapprove & they would be removed.

    #7196

    heolisaf
    Participant

    I should have added above that my suggestion that a 20mph zone from radyr comp to Pughs is a bit too long relies heavily on the caveat that there absolutely needs to be a tabled crossing at min-y-coed between regardless. That is critical!

    #7197

    heolisaf
    Participant

    Hang on a minute! I just re-read your post Steveb…. Are you sure the councillor has said there will be no money from Plasdwr? It specifically says on the signed S106 that there is 300k available for ‘Heol Isaf improvements’. The council have to spend it on exactly that within a certain amount of time (it hasn’t been released yet) or in theory Plasdwr can ask for it back.

    Either the councillor is mistaken or what he’s saying is that 300k isn’t enough. Things like the school safety zone proposed outside the secondary school should come out the council active travel budget so £300k could actually do quite a lot.

    #7198

    steveb
    Participant

    Hi Heol Isaf,

    no what I said was:
    Our local councillor has explained even with S106 money available from Plasdwr, there will be no speed restrictions or safety measures for Heol Isaf.

    Maybe what I should have said was he has said numerous times, there is no intention (as I understand) to use that money on Heol Isaf to provide a raised crossing at Min Y Coed or Park rd. From memory I think he has said Min Y Coed and Park Rd were too far away from the development and hence not effected…

    ps he does say that £300k is nowhere near enough to provide the level of safety measures required for Heol Isaf, so if you can ascertain what council plan to spend that money on, that would be useful, but aware funds are not released yet. Seems quite difficult to find out what that money will be spent on.

    #7199

    heolisaf
    Participant

    Ah ok… I’m with you.

    It still seems pretty unusual and unambitious for the councillor to say that. The only reason that 300k is on the s106 is because of a document called ‘Heol Isaf Improvenments’ submitted to planning for the 650 houses north/south of llantrisant road. That document is solely related to speed and safety measures so there is a possible legal challenge here if it is spent on something else (although as I understand, not if it is not spent at all).

    All I know is that there are a number of road safety improvements listed in Cardiff Active travel plan (I started another thread on it). These are not tied to the Plasdwr S106 and will need to be delivered at some point. Unfortunately they are not 100% specific so the proposal of ‘additional crossings for Heol Isaf’ does not clarify exactly where.

    #7200

    steveb
    Participant

    I have seen a document from the council previously and it shows a raised crossing at Min Y Coed and Park rd, 20 zones at Bryn Deri, Radyr Primary and Comp. Think it was the 10 yr plan. Sadly it does not say when it will happen or how it is paid for…

    But what do you think about a voluntary 20 zone in R&M?

    #7202

    Hi Steve, thank you for this excellent initiative. I am very supportive. You may not know that I was run over on the zebra crossing, on my way to a Governors meeting at Radyr Comp, in 2010. The driver was convicted of careless driving and I received compensation; but, the 12 months out with physical and mental injuries had a significant impact on my career and lifestyle. A few years later, I sent a letter to the Police Commissioner and Chief Constable, with a map that detailed 15 road traffic collisions, along Heol Isaf, over a 10 year period. This letter supported our County Councillors efforts to push for a Pedestrian crossing at Min-y-Coed. I have recently mentioned, my FOI request, regarding the legal advice on HGVs; and, I am supporting the Community Council in putting pressure on the Highways Agency and Cardiff Council, to make Heol Isaf safer, for adults and children, alike. As I mentioned to you, I was driving at 29mph, today, through Radyr and wondered what it would be like to drive at 20mph. I have to say that, in many areas, such as Heol Isaf, my conviction is that 20mph is the way forward. So, I am supportive of a voluntary 20mph scheme, if it is part of a movement to put public pressure on the relevant public bodies to formalise road safety in Radyr and Morganstown. It would be great to see many of our neigbours and residents motivated to own and progress the campaign. If you would like to meet up to discuss tactics, I would be happy. I am organising – that is, I am progressing a Community Council decision – a consultation on the preffered response to a ‘right to name’ for Morganstown; we could include consultation on the voluntary 20mph scheme and could organise one for Radyr, also. Let me know what you think. May is quite a good month for public consultaitons, with the evenings longer and the weather sunnier. Cheers, Kieran

    #7203

    heolisaf
    Participant

    Yeah I think it’s a great idea! As I see it, the council and our local representation have left little option for residents of Radyr but to do something themselves. As every other area surrounding Radyr now has traffic calming, tabled junctions etc. this has left us vulnerable to drivers wanting to make up lost time in other areas on our doorstep and next to our children! The speed survey data reflects this. We’ve been let down

    #7204

    manb
    Participant

    Hi Cllr Webster, thanks hugely for your input, and I think that the irony of you being struck by a car on a zebra crossing in Radyr is very unfortunate.

    I am all for a consultation on the voluntary 20mph scheme and (that you graciously) could organise one for Radyr also. And its also good to see people volunteering there front garden for this.
    What I don’t want to see is the waffle, misinformation, and time consuming that this has taken so far !

    I am quiet honestly not sure how much consultation this requires though ? Are we overthinking a pretty straightforwards exercise. We have simply reached a position where following the normal route to get somewhere via the council has in fact over a very reasonable and practical time frame got us nowhere.
    I agree with the others who have posted in favour of some form of direct action that we now need to take. If it costs me £50 and no one gets run over its money well invested, if it costs £50 and gets me nowhere again, or god forbid someone is hurt, at least I will know that hand on heart I can sleep nights, not all in the council will be able to do that !

    I would happily attend any meeting and put £50 into a sign fund, all the signs could then be uniform, and add credibility to the effort.

    For what its worth guys Cllr McKerlich said:(This very topic March 29th)
    The comment about Redrow’s letter has 2 problems:
    Redrow , thus far has paid no money towards traffic calming measures on Heol Isaf;

      it will eventually pay 300K

    A number of traffic calming measures were put forward by Redrow and Vectos; I have suggested several others such as extending the 20 mph zone (instead of stopping at Station Road extend it to Pughs) and putting a pelican crossing at Min Y Coed. Regrettably £300K is nothing like enough to do all the measures suggested by Redrow, let alone any additional measures.

    This is what bought on my comments about “extending” the 20mph zone.
    We don’t have one Cllr !

    #7205

    manb
    Participant
    #7206

    steveb
    Participant

    Very useful and highlights will not be very expensive. Who knows, if residents are prepared to put it in their gardens along Heol Isaf, maybe it is something the community council will contemplate funding?

    Think we will comfortably get 10-12 residents along Heol Isaf who would put a sign up. So probably cost around £250 – £350 based on that site. What I would say, is we will probably need different signs, to show it is voluntary, thinking maybe yellow rim as opposed to red. If you put red ones up, it will cause an issue, but again sure go safe / police could provide us some guidance on that.

    I did speak to PCSO for the area today, and he thought it was a decent idea. They have been out today doing random stops for people using phones and no seatbelt, and have done some speed checks recently. Once the high vis and word is out though, the speed drops to around 24mph on average – as he said if everyone drove like that when we are not here there wouldn’t be an issue.

    Looks like this has some mileage.

    #7211

    diddle
    Participant

    steveb – good point about the community council funding.

    As there are some official figures on today’s police action, Kieran can the community council be asked for some funding for these signs?

    I posted on the HGV thread of some ideas about what the community council be putting their funding towards – necessity items as opposed to luxury.

    I can’t believe the community council are proposing to spend nearly £2.5k on some signs for the OCR
    /council/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2018/02/Old-Church-Rooms-Signage-Quote-DSQ3015.pdf

    The signs mentioned on this thread whether for wheelie bins or for residents to put in their gardens seems like something that would benefit the whole of R&M.

    #7215

    Hi again, yes, I am happy to bring up the potential grass-roots voluntary 20mph scheme at the next Council meeting. In my limited experience local democracy takes many forms, from elected representation and governance, to participatory consultation and decision-making in politics, through community education and development, to popular campaigns and direct action; there has been a lot of good effort by many representatives, chipping away at the issue and finding some successes and many obstacles; adding a local movement by local people will only add weight to other initiatives, especially if everyone is talking together; and, who knows, it may continue to involve the endurance of time in the scales of a solution but it could also prove to be the gold nugget that moves the balance over the tipping point for change.

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