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May 9, 2018 at 10:23 pm #7378
Incredible community solidarity tonight, and that’s what it’s all about. This is after all almost exclusively a road safety issue, and we all want the same thing in that respect. Many thanks to Michelle and Chris for making it possible. Let’s keep it going now!May 10, 2018 at 9:22 am #7379
Well done Michelle! You smashed it in my opinion.
Couple more thoughts for the Big Bang :
– why not have it in the evening rush hour rather than the morning… no issues with missing exams or doctors appointments then
– perhaps a couple of signs on entering the village explaining why the action is happening and to reflect the 2 main issues (speeding off peak/traffic during peak) I.e. “81% SpeedIng in centre of village” and “you think this is bad? Wait till an extra 12,000 homes are built with no new infrastructure”May 10, 2018 at 11:12 am #7380
I took a number of thoughts away from the meeting:
1. Any Council / Highways plans for traffic calming and speed limiting, along the length of the road in our Village(s), Radyr and Morganstown, are by no means secure;
2. The delivery and funding of any Council / Highways plans for traffic calming and speed limiting is not at all certain; and,
3. The Council / Highways plans for traffic calming and speed limiting are inadequate, as they do not include a tabled crossing at Min-y-Coed or 20mph or any calming infrastructure beyond Station road.
I also took away that there is,
1. a substantial consensus and experience, amongst residents along Heol Isaf in Radyr, that the road is dangerous;
2. a significant number of people willing to take direct action to support the case for traffic calming and speed limit reductions; and
3. this conversation needs to be shared with residents in Morganstown, so that direct action can be coordinated and effective.May 10, 2018 at 11:12 am #7381
What I would say, is the big bang approach is not really that radical. In reality the residents of Radyr choose not to park on one side of the road, should they change their mind for an hour, this is completely legal and allowed. Ideally I think police consultation and even assistance (via monitoring for that hour) would be hugely beneficial.
Yes it will cause issues and highlight the problem and people will be unimpressed (but you can’t please all the people all the time), but if for example Welsh Water wanted to dig up one side of the road, they just would and no one talks about the impact this has on the emergency services.
I think the idea of doing it in the evening rather than morning is more considerate in relation to appointments & schools etc, but however you do this it will upset some people and there is no way around that.
Also some of the ideas last night were highlighted as expensive and hence unlikely to be done short term, our councillor is very good at saying we need 8 crossing and 3 roundabouts and 20 zones and this that and the other to make R&M safe, and that is fine, it is blue sky, but this does not all need to be done at once and not many would expect it to be.
That doesn’t mean we just say hey ho we will never get all that done so lets do nothing and this is where the community council can help the community. This new committee can come up with ideas for the council (big things) and the community council (for the smaller things). Working together over a period of time I am confident we can achieve pretty close to blue sky, but only if we work together else this will go on and on.
Also many people say 20 zones are unenforceable, well I would highlight people also thought having a alcohol limit was unfair and wouldn’t work, wearing seatbelt was draconian and wouldn’t work and more recently stopping people using their phones while driving wouldn’t work.
So why can’t we simply make R&M Heol Isaf a 20 zone for now and then see how much of a difference it makes? Comparatively that was cost a fraction of the cost…just a thought.May 10, 2018 at 11:36 am #7382
Good points Steve.
I view a 20mph zone more about a change in attitude/envionment rather than enforcement. If combined with tabled junctions/crossings then it will be effective. Sure you’ll get the odd person who breaks the limit… but at the moment we have 81% of people breaking the 30mph limit outside the medical centre.
What a 20mph zone would do (even if not conmbined with more expensive engineered calming) is back up residents who want to drive at a safe speed. At the moment you get beeped and even overtaken in the centre of the village if you drop below 29mph. That is intimidating and has no place in a village with narrow streets/pavements and 3 schools.
Do we know how much 20mph zones cost? I’d have thought the majority of it relates to consultation and admin of the traffic order… which for the council is bread and butter day to day type work. It’s just signage and road paint surely.May 10, 2018 at 12:20 pm #7383
There are similar figures for the number of motorists who exceed the legal speed limit on the Morganstown Main Road and Min-y-Coed hill.May 10, 2018 at 1:13 pm #7384
oh that doesn’t surprise me Kieran. I would have thought it would be worse still there as its a bit wider. The medical centre area there is barely enough room for 2 cars to pass each other by the on-street parking… so to think that the vast majority of opposing passing cars would have a combined impact speed of 70 mph (all whilst practically touching the kerb of a narrow pavement filled with schoolchildren) is pretty shocking.
Wasn’t there a couple of cars caught doing over 90mph in the Min-y-coed area? As I recall we had a few over 70 in the centre of the village based on the gosafecymru surveyMay 10, 2018 at 1:43 pm #7385
HeolIsaf – my thoughts exactly.
Birchgrove have just had one done outside their primary school. Councillor Hinchey managed to get put in place is my understanding. I drove past a couple of weeks ago and took a photo (and posted on twitter), looks very straight forward, strip of red tarmac with 20 on it at the junctions entering it and some signs.
Not saying this is easy, I am sure there are technicalities, but surely this is more straight forward than the metro or what some town in France have done?…May 10, 2018 at 1:48 pm #7386
Kieran as per Rods comments last night, what we want is a 20 zone from Pugh’s to Llantrisant Rd. That is R&M. Sorted. We just need to make it happen now…
The way to do this for me is not allow the lumping together of every single issue and try to say it all needs to be done at once.
Small bite size improvements. Rome wasn’t built in a day.May 10, 2018 at 2:20 pm #7387
Yes, it is like chipping away at Mount Rushmore; it is an amorphous chunk of rock but in the mind’s eye of the chisel is a series of micro-templates and a grand form – revealed when the final stroke is completed and the sculptor stands back to view it. 🙂May 10, 2018 at 2:59 pm #7388
With regards to the 20mph zone that the Councillor said was proposed by Vectos last night…. I’m afraid he’s taken his eye of the ball with that. Whilst there was a proposal of a 20mph zone (from the secondary school to Station rd) submitted as part of the initial application for outline planning permission (in a document called ‘Heol Isaf Improvements’), as is so often the case, when it came to the actual discharge of the planning conditions, what was actually submitted by Vectos (Redrow’s consultant) fell considerably short of that. All the tabled junctions and new crossings are there but the 20mph zone and earlier talk of “changing the pedestrian environment” has gone from the Vectos travel plan compared to their earlier ‘Heol Isaf improvements’ document. The Vectos travel plan along with the community council’s response to it can all be seen in the documents tab here: https://planningonline.cardiff.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=_CARDIFF_DCAPR_121436
Of course the ultimate decision on how the 300k is spent is up to Cardiff Council and not Vectos. However, unless our councillor is specifically pushing the issue of a 20mph zone with them then they wont be planning one because despite what we were told last night… there is absolutely no mention of a 20mph zone in the latest Vectos submission (the travel plan, Sept 2017).
Question: Should the 20mph zone be the core demand of any direct action? Michelle excellently outlined the 2 issues we have:
– speeding outside of peak hours
– traffic during peak hours
However, does our message risk getting a bit muddled if we focus on both? Should we only focus on traffic calming/20mph zones to deal with the safety aspect and then hopefully more restrictions/tables/crossings etc will have a knock on effect of dissuading rat runners? I suspect reducing traffic in NW Cardiff is a bit too big an issue for us to deal with and needs to be dealt with on a strategic level. Credit where credit is due, the councillor made a very good suggestion on that i.e. more park and rides/reduced train fares up the valley line from us.May 10, 2018 at 3:02 pm #7389
I think if we do push the excessive traffic (and increase that will happen due to Plasdwr) perhaps we should keep it as an add on i.e. we have an over 80% speeding rate in a built up village environment AND we are going to have many more cars/HGVs speeding through in futureMay 10, 2018 at 3:42 pm #7390
I think that is a valid point. The reduction of volume is a less concrete and less directly achievable goal than improving road safety through measures that reduce legal and excessive speed. However, as you say, campaigning, direct action and supporting representatives to improve road safety will assist in managing volume.May 10, 2018 at 4:58 pm #7391
What I would say is just because there is the S106 due to come, that does not remove responsibility for the council to provide basic provisions that everywhere else has already had and we so desperately need.
It seems all the focus is going on the S106, so let me play devils advocate, lets assume Plasdwr wasn’t happening, would we simply be saying we can’t do anything in R&M because there is no money? The issue of speeding traffic would still be the same and we would still be in the same position.
I think we need to separate the Plasdwr development from the speeding issue on Heol Isaf…not easy I know but the issue was there pre Plasdwr.
Any improvements that S106 provides are a bonus to the core issues that need to be resolved.May 10, 2018 at 5:01 pm #7392
The core issue for me, is we need to slow the traffic on Heol Isaf through R&M. The cheapest way to do this I am confident will be a 20 zone from Pugh’s to Llantrisant Rd.
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