Heol Isaf traffic

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This topic contains 14 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  onllwyn 2 weeks, 1 day ago.

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  • #8071

    tristan
    Participant

    Travelling home to Radyr yesterday I joined the queue on Heol Isaf near the thatched cottage at 15:10. As I approached Radyr Comp there was absolute chaos. Cars were parked on both sides of the road, most of them illegally on the pavement. Pupils were using the zebra crossing, as is their right, but a lack of a crossing patrol meant that there were long queues of traffic in both directions. Why is this situation allowed to happen?

    #8072

    taffy
    Participant

    Where have you been for the last couple of years Tristan?!!
    That is the norm for school time, as it is in the mornings.
    At least there is no speeding!

    #8073

    Hi Tristan, there is an awful lot of things happening in R+M atm with road traffic and safety. I fyou would like to find out more, feel free to drop me a line and I can update you. Cheers. Kieran

    #8074

    tristan
    Participant

    Taffy, I am fully aware of the unacceptable level of traffic on Heol
    Isaf. My normal route home is via Morganstown, and being retired I usually travel off peak. My concern about the chaos I witnessed the other day was there was no through passage for an ambulance or fire engine in the event of an emergency.

    #8077

    Hi Tristan,

    I am a fellow Morganstowner, too and I share your concerns – so, a personal response.

    Motor vehicles travel through your and my Village at an 85th percentile of over 35mph, which doesn’t work for liveable streets and to allow vulnerable residents to cross for the bus stop etc.

    If it is helpful, I can share a few things that I have learnt about urban transport planning, nowadays.

    The Community Council will shortly be depositing, in the OCR Offices, a copy of Cardiff Council’s Concept Design for the road through our Villages. You are welcome to come and view it.

    The comprehensive Design is what current Best Practice looks like in balancing the needs of pedestrian, cyclist, equestrian and motor vehicle usage of the road.

    Hypothetically, we could have the balance at one end, with crash barriers the length of our road and a 50mph speed limit; or at the other extreme, a man with a flag in front of all motor vehicles with pedestrians, cyclists and animals crossing, as and when.

    The ideal balance, in urban residential environments is, nowadays, to have a road design that allows wide-width pavements for pedestrians (and cycle lanes if possible) with plenty of motor vehicle ‘speed-calming’ architecture and regularly spaced crossing points and a smooth flow of motor vehicles.

    The Cardiff Plan includes 8 tabled crossing points for a two mile road and encourages – through road architecture and speed limits – a traffic flow that is nearer 25mph than 35mph.

    This makes it a steady traffic flow that constrains demand, reduces net pollution and increases road safety and general pleasantness for all road users.

    It is the current imbalance of different road user needs which causes the type of congestion that you experienced.

    Currently, there is not enough immediate funding for the proposed scheme and the Council will be considering what our response will be … but this is just a personal comment, so feel free to contribute to the debate, directly to the Council or through our Advisory Working Group on Road Safety.

    It is through the collective wisdom that we will make progress.
    Cheers,

    Kieran

    #8078

    tristan
    Participant

    Hi Kieran

    I am surprised there have been no plans to install traffic lights at the Bryn Derwen junction. It would have the effect of slowing traffic in both directions and benefit the residents living on Castle View.

    #8079

    Hi Tristan,

    That is a really interesting point that no one has brought up yet.

    But it certainly makes sense.

    My own thought was that it needed a tabled mini roundabout but Traffic Controlled Lights would also work.

    I am not sure, off the bat, whether this is a CCC or Highways responsibility or what the criteria are, but I will now look into it.

    A very helpful suggestion. Thanks.

    Kieran

    #8080

    steveb
    Participant

    That is an interesting idea. Traffic lights are (as I understand it) used to slow traffic, and I’m assuming it is challenging turning right from Bryan determine at peak times especially given cars can go very quickly down the hill. That spot by there has probably had a number of accidents over the years as well.

    #8081

    steveb
    Participant

    Bryan determine! Lol. Beauty of auto spell. Bryn Derwen.

    #8082

    Good point SteveB.

    The only downside I can think of is that it might encourage right-turners from through-traffic, which would mean more measures up Bryn Derwen and Windsor Avenue.

    But it is a really good idea.

    As you intimate, there have, in fact, been 4 collisions on the hill over recent years.

    I have been a pedestrian, cyclist and driver using the ‘hill’ 3 or 4 times a day, for 16 years, and I regularly watch Morganstowners leading 3 or 4 toddlers/children up the hill to School or Nursery.

    5 years ago, I was walking my boys back home and a motorist mounted the pavement and headed straight for us. One of my sons said, “Dad?”

    All I had time to do was push them into the fence and put my body in the way.

    Thankfully, the guy looked up and saw us before pulling back on to the road with feet to spare.

    Personally, from the North end perspective, new tabled crossings for the bus stop in Morganstown and the walking route for Min-y-Coed have to feature on what is delivered.

    Thankfully, there is funding for more than just those two items. 🙂

    #8117

    skippy
    Participant

    I suggested a mini-roundabout at the junction of Bryn Derwen & Heol Isaf many moons ago at a PACT meeting, but this was dismissed out of hand as buses might ground on such, although I can’t see how a spot of paint on the road would cause any grounding. It is always a bit of a nightmare trying to exit Bryn Derwen onto Heol Isaf and a roundabout or lights should have the desired effect of slowing traffic travelling towards Morganstown. Road Safety is always an emotive issue. I have lived in my current home for over 30 yrs on the corner with Bryn Derwen and am only personally aware of 1 accident on Bryn Derwen, and that was a motorcycle going too fast up the hill about 15-20 yrs ago, although I am aware that barriers were erected at Maes-y-Bryn as there had been a couple of cars mounting the pavement in adverse weather, again many, many years ago. There is always a lot of anecdotal rhetoric regarding accidents and speeding vehicles, but a paper compiled by Cardiff council revealed that up to 2016, there were a total of 5 minor ‘shunts’ within the vicinity of Park Road in the previous 5 years. I am all in favour of a 20mph zone during school hours as in other parts of the country during the school term, but common sense should prevail for other times along major through routes. At 10pm, or say 2am, what is achieved by a 20mph limit, which ultimately will be ignored, or cause dangerous tail gaiting, as occurs along Cathedral Road. Sadly I await the inevitable scorn for not agreeing with the dictates of the good and the great of Radyr.

    #8118

    No scorn from me Skippy (although I did restrain my comedic memory of our favourite Australian animal hero!).

    It is important that there is a community conversation about all the questions surrounding Cardiff Council’s plan.

    It is true that the current ‘best practice’ discourse veers away from variable 20mph limits, both temporally and spatially, within wide-area limits or zones, primarily because of the complexity in ensuring compliance; but also because children and adults are walking and cycling on busy roads, at many times of day.

    If there were a Welsh national default of 20mph, in line with the increasing international norm, for instance, then Councils’ could apply for 30mph limits where the road was safe or compatible with that limit; examples would be the A48 and A470.

    My personal view, on Bryn Derwen, is that I would prefer to see a tabled roundabout. The thinking of Cardiff Council, in their concept design, must be that the tabled crossing at Min-y-Coed and the gateway by the M4 bridge, along with the self-enforcing nature of a 20mph limit, will have a similar impact.

    It should be considered and the question asked of the Council, though.

    #8119

    amanda
    Participant

    We live in a residential area where there are 3 schools, a care home and public amenities. If you hit a child when driving at:
    40mph– you will probably kill the child
    30mph- the child has an 80% chance of survival
    20mph– the child is likely to survive with minor injuries.

    Speed

    I know what risk I’d prefer in our Community. I don’t think any driver wants to the one that hits a child who runs out or just stumbles off the pavement or the mother of the child that gets hit.

    Tristan – you are right, no crossing patrol outside Radyr Comp is a disgrace and I have no idea why not. That should be added to the list!

    #8120

    heolisaf
    Participant

    No scorn from me either skippy… but Bryn Derwen isn’t Heol Isaf. It doesn’t carry over 13,000 cars a day, tens if not 100’s of illegal HGVs, hundreds of school children etc. It’s pavements and overall width are/is wider. Oh and I doubt it can rival Heol Isaf’s 81% speeding rate either.

    I’ve not lived on Heol Isaf 30 years… but I’ve seen 2 cars completely written off, 2 other crashes, cars mount the pavement, HGVs mount the pavement at speed, cars skid as children take their chances crossing the road between the totally inadequately spaces safe crossings…. and all that is just in the past few months! Oh and I see cars speed across the crossing outside the primary school (while kids are literally stepping onto it) almost every day.

    The roundabout access to Bryn Derwen is a good idea. However if we bring the speed down to somewhere approaching normal i.e what you might find in Whitchurch etc. then things may start to flow as the gaps in the traffic become more realistic to pull out into.

    #8227

    onllwyn
    Participant

    Here is a link to Radyr and Morganstown Community Council’s response to Cardiff Council’s draft scheme layout for highway improvements:

    https://bit.ly/2r4C8PJ

    In summary, the response states that Radyr and Morganstown Community Council:

    welcomes the proposed works
    wants to work with Cardiff Council to agree a comprehensive scheme that will make our community a better and safer place to live.
    wants to agree with Cardiff Council a timetable for delivery of the scheme within as short a time as possible.
    believes strongly that providing a limited number of improvements, making some parts of the road safe whilst leaving other parts in a dangerous condition, should not be thought of as ‘enough for now’.
    believes that the work should begin with new tabled zebra crossings at Morganstown, Min-y-Coed and Radyr Health Center – along with additional provision by Radyr Comprehensive School.
    agrees that existing zebra crossings should be tabled
    wants to work with Cardiff Council to ensure successful delivery of a 20mph zone, as an integral part of the scheme
    would like to see all crossings catering for cyclists, if possible.
    agrees that the crossing near Station Road should be upgraded to a tabled Puffin Crossing
    would support the introduction of a 20mph limit, based on best practice
    requests a tabled Pegasus Crossing near Radyr Farm Lane, to enable pedestrians, cyclists and horse-riders to cross safely
    requests that thought be given to providing safe passage for motorists living east and west of Heol Isaf and Ty Nant Road, as they seek to turn left and right onto those roads
    believes that a safe-cycling strategy should be developed for Radyr and Morganstown
    requests that the risks associated with the junction of De Clare Drive with King’s Road should be addressed,
    requests that a pavement should be installed along the short length of Windsor Road which does not have one at present
    requests that various options should be considered with regard to the future use of Golf Club lane
    asks that signs be erected to discourage fly tipping on Golf Club Lane.
    supports changing train ticket pricing to remove the incentive to catch trains fom Radyr rather than Taffs Well
    requests that the safety of pedestrians crossing the lower end of Drysgol Road should be considered
    requests that Cardiff Council considers measures to ensure that the propsed works do not result in drivers using other routes through Radyr and Morganstown, thus transferring risk to other sections of road.

    The response has been sent to Councillor Caro Wild (Cardiff Council’s Cabinet Member for Strategic Planning & Transport); Paul Carter (Head of Transport at Cardiff Council); Mark Drakeford AM; Kevin Brennan MP and the Welsh Government.

    Cllr Huw Onllwyn Jones

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